Avram is CEO of a major automotive factory in Macedonia, an electrical engineer by training. He’s almost 69, and he takes pride of how his training and critical thinking got him to where he is now in life. He’s a regular attendee at our Leader Impact Seniors meetings for networking… but dismissed theological claims as untestable, therefore unbelievable.
The Key Objection: Supremacy of The Scientific Worldview
“If a phenomenon cannot be replicated, it cannot be true,” he often said, applying laboratory criteria to every worldview. Especially religion.
There’s evolution, the known laws of physics, biology, chemistry etc. these are the tools of perceiving the world, and living a good life. Anything over these hard materialistic pillars is wishful thinking, a sort of a coping mechanism when life doesn’t go as planned.
Religion is for weaklings was his deep conviction, although Avram is too much of a gentleman to come out so aggressively and dismiss us and our claims.
The Pivotal Math Discussion (Autumn 2024)
At one Leader Impact meeting, we gradually shifted from the topic we discussed as a group, to a breakup discussion. Somehow, I ended up with Goce and Avram, casually chatting about life and faith.
Avram led (as big CEOs usually do) the discussion back to science vs faith topic.
As he was sharing his strong leniency toward Science, I remembered a mathematical anomaly that’s only used in electrical engineering, more specifically, in unwanted magnetic fields caused by voltage oscillations in power grids. This anomaly can be calculated by using an imaginary number whose square root is -1.
I started talking about this “imaginary One”, as it’s known in the industry, and pointed out how, even though Math is a universal language for sciences, different fields are so complex and amazing, that mathematicians had to invent a non existing rule to make sense of what’s going on with these weird electromagnetic forces. And, I explained, as Electromagnetism makes up its own math to make sense of what it studies, it’s making mathematical claims that other sciences can’t agree with. There are no “imaginary ones” in digital electronics, or mechanical engineering.
Avram knew this formula. And when he understood how this formula stands unique in electrical engineering, he softened to the fact that there is no “The Science”. Instead, there are branches of natural sciences focusing on their own subject matter, and coming up with their own “tools of thinking” to study their subject matter.
If the math from mechanical engineering can’t be 100% applied in electrical engineering, how can we expect that both these material sciences would have the proper methodology to study a nin-matetial subject matter like Economics, Psychology, Philosophy…Theology?
Each subject matter demands its own methodology, in order to make truth claims. And sometimes, methodologies will differ simply because the subject matter differs.
Smart people follow the evidence
Avram then started talking about how in Physics we have Quantum Physics and Newtonian physics and how these two branches of physics have different definitions of reality. It was his way of switching gears, and warming up to the possibility that “The Scientific Principle” perhaps is too broad of a term, and that it does make sense to lower the expectations, and be open to other approaches to talk about the rest of the non-physical parts of life.
We continued talking that, other than Quantum and Newtonian physics, there Astro physics too. And it took has its own methods and conclusions, often leading to contradicting claims about the physical reality.
A joke before the solemn moment
As we discussed different conclusions of science, we ended with a joke of Schrodinger’s Cat as the inevitable Uncertainty Principle.
Then, there was a few seconds of silence. But it felt like an hour.
Avram had his head down, and me and Goce suffered through this silence, allowing Avram the time to absorb this conversation, and getting to some conclusions.
“I’m a black sheep here, it seems. I love spending time with you guys. I love the conversations. But I seem to be an outsider. But I don’t want to be an outsider. I want to believe. It’s just that I don’t really know how to.”
Next steps
The meeting had to end eventually, and we all got back to our business reality. Avram was dealing with an acquisition, and he fought tooth and nail to make sure his factory staff won’t be affected by the merger. He managed to keep the factory open, with minimal staff loss.
He keeps on meeting weekly with Ile and Toshe.
I had to get back to my reality of running my business and pushing several big projects in the meantime.
But I look back at that strange evening, where a CEO of a strategically important company in Macedonia finally saw the shortcomings of the scientific worldview as insufficient for explaining everything we go through on a daily basis. Moreover, he expressed his desire to be with us at our meetings.
He first saw the openness, the safety of the group, he saw what Christians do and think. And he wants in.
Sometimes, all it takes is for the right conversation to happen, for the right questions to be voiced in the right moment…and even the strongest proponents of the scientific models to find themselves at the base of the cross, seeking answers but finding a person.
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